In order to clear up the misunderstanding, let me say that my hope is that one or two of you will take a look at the passage and offer some feedback about what you think the passage means. Take care.
I haven't contemplated those verses for a very long time, but they are quite mysterious. My initial thoughts are very simple and non-profound. What I see is this: we need to watch out for our siblings in the Family; we need to pray for them; God WILL give him life (which I assume to be spiritual restoration, and not necessarily physical life); some sins will necessarily lead to death, but do not seem to rob this sinner of their sonship (since this talks about a "brother" and "physical death," not a spiritual death); all wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.
However, I am reading into that verse my outside theology. I suppose, just by looking at this verse alone, it could be effectively argued that the "death" described is spiritual death, and that in a believer's life they could potentially sin and lose their spiritual life. The problem is that John says not to pray for these people/situations, and as a believer a "loss" of a brother would grieve me the most, and would drive me to prayer. I find it unlikely that John would say to just not pray for someone who becomes "lost" after being found.
Plus, John links sin to wrongdoing, and it makes more sense to think that some wrongdoing could lead to a loss of physical life. John would seem to be very unloving if he says that some sins can lead to the loss of salvation as an afterthought, and then does not detail what sins to stay away from. In other words, if some sins necessarily lead to a loss of salvation, we have upon us the most important area of discipline for the lives of the Brethren: how to avoid this sin. However, John has given us absolutely no explanation or guidance. This is my problem with the notion of losing salvation: there are no specifics about it in the Word, and if it is possible, I would think the specifics would be the greatest concern of the writers and readers of the Word. This is NOT the concern of an AFTERTHOUGHT in a lengthy epistle about the behavior of God's children. It makes much more sense to say, after assuring the Siblings of their certainty of eternal life in verses 11-13 (especially verse 13), to say that though you are saved, sin can still cost you your life. Don't dabble in it for it is dangerous.
Plus, in the very next verse, John says that those who are reborn will not keep sinning and will be protected by God, and THE EVIL ONE DOES NOT TOUCH HIM. He could not say this if verses 16-17 meant that a reborn person can lose their salvation and go to hell (i.e. that God did not protect him and the evil one will then touch him).
As a concluding thought, it seems that John says, "Don't be fatalistic with my words: do not read me writing, 'You cannot keep sinning' and take it for granted. Sin is dangerous and costly, and avoiding sin is not child's play. You will see brothers sinning. You must work to restore them, and definitely do not just say, 'Well, they will stop eventually and be ok. John said so.'"
I hope that made sense. Finally, in the next verse,
3 comments:
Gentlemen,
In order to clear up the misunderstanding, let me say that my hope is that one or two of you will take a look at the passage and offer some feedback about what you think the passage means. Take care.
Matt
I haven't contemplated those verses for a very long time, but they are quite mysterious. My initial thoughts are very simple and non-profound. What I see is this: we need to watch out for our siblings in the Family; we need to pray for them; God WILL give him life (which I assume to be spiritual restoration, and not necessarily physical life); some sins will necessarily lead to death, but do not seem to rob this sinner of their sonship (since this talks about a "brother" and "physical death," not a spiritual death); all wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.
However, I am reading into that verse my outside theology. I suppose, just by looking at this verse alone, it could be effectively argued that the "death" described is spiritual death, and that in a believer's life they could potentially sin and lose their spiritual life. The problem is that John says not to pray for these people/situations, and as a believer a "loss" of a brother would grieve me the most, and would drive me to prayer. I find it unlikely that John would say to just not pray for someone who becomes "lost" after being found.
Plus, John links sin to wrongdoing, and it makes more sense to think that some wrongdoing could lead to a loss of physical life. John would seem to be very unloving if he says that some sins can lead to the loss of salvation as an afterthought, and then does not detail what sins to stay away from. In other words, if some sins necessarily lead to a loss of salvation, we have upon us the most important area of discipline for the lives of the Brethren: how to avoid this sin. However, John has given us absolutely no explanation or guidance. This is my problem with the notion of losing salvation: there are no specifics about it in the Word, and if it is possible, I would think the specifics would be the greatest concern of the writers and readers of the Word. This is NOT the concern of an AFTERTHOUGHT in a lengthy epistle about the behavior of God's children. It makes much more sense to say, after assuring the Siblings of their certainty of eternal life in verses 11-13 (especially verse 13), to say that though you are saved, sin can still cost you your life. Don't dabble in it for it is dangerous.
Plus, in the very next verse, John says that those who are reborn will not keep sinning and will be protected by God, and THE EVIL ONE DOES NOT TOUCH HIM. He could not say this if verses 16-17 meant that a reborn person can lose their salvation and go to hell (i.e. that God did not protect him and the evil one will then touch him).
As a concluding thought, it seems that John says, "Don't be fatalistic with my words: do not read me writing, 'You cannot keep sinning' and take it for granted. Sin is dangerous and costly, and avoiding sin is not child's play. You will see brothers sinning. You must work to restore them, and definitely do not just say, 'Well, they will stop eventually and be ok. John said so.'"
I hope that made sense.
Finally, in the next verse,
at the end of my first paragraph, the deadly refers to immediate physical death. I do not mean to say diminish the sin's destruction.
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